I have just started mesilas yesharim with a long distance chavrusa and am struck by a question. The message of Chapter One that a person's motivation should be to achieve dveikus and that should lead him to fulfilling mitzvos with great care to achieve the desired dveikus leads me to wonder if there is a difference in this between mitzvos between a person and Hashem and mitzvos between a person and his fellow man. I am ok with someone keeping Shabbos with great care in order to achieve dveikus. But if I am greeted with warmth by someone who has just studied the first chapter of Mesilas Yesharim and his greeting was motivated by the desire to achieve dveikus by fulfilling the rabbinic dictum to greet his fellow, I somehow feel better about the warm hello that I get from someone who has never heard of Rav Moshe Chaim Luzzato and is just a loving person.
Does the Mesilas Yesharim want my mitzvos vis a vis my fellow man to be motivated by the desire to achieve dveikus or by my love of my fellow man?
The Gemarrah in Brachot says that if someone stops by his friend's house before he davens in the morning to say hi, he is turning his friend into an altar.
ReplyDeleteIt is important that we do things because we are ultimately motivated to deveikut to Hashem. This is why Ben Azai (argues with R' Akiva and says) the "Klal Gadol Batorah" is "B'tzelem elokim nivrah ha'adam." According to this view, the reason why we have an obligation to be nice to other people is precisely because doing so brings us closer to Hashem. Our love of Hashem should in-and-of-itself extend to a love of all people as we all contain a spark of divinity (and all other creations to a lesser extent.)
However, to love your fellow human being having removed God from the equation is idolatrous.
I see that my question was insufficiently clear.
ReplyDeleteGod forbid that God be removed from the equation. And certainly our obligation to be nice to other people is because doing so brings us closer to Hashem.
My question was not about obligation but about motivation. What is the formulation of the motivation when we are nice to other people. Should we be motivated directly by the desire for dveikus? Or does the desire for dveikus impel us to love our fellow man and then our immediate motivation when we are nice to other people is that love (that we developed because of the desire for dveikus).
If I understand you correctly, maybe we could compare it to eating. Why do we eat? Well, the real reason is because food gives us energy and keeps us healthy. But the direct motivation is because it tastes good - only a sick person is fed through an IV solely for sustenance.
ReplyDeleteSame thing when it comes to being nice. The ultimate truth is because it's a mitzvah. But someone who views me like I'm some kind of Lulav for him to do Mitzvos with is sick.
The real question for me is whether all the desires we have for connection with others is a derivative of the desire for connection with the RobonoShel Olam , or does that desire exist in a separate parallel universe, from the desire of connection with Hashem, via d'veikus.
ReplyDeletePut simply if I did not strive for d'veikus via mitzvos, would I be without a desire for human connection.
In my limited undersatnding I believe that if one has internalized an awareness of the Borei Olam, even without the undersatnding that torah and mitzvos are the vehicles for dveikus/closeness, the bein odom v'chavero is still there.
Awareness of the Borei Olam without any dveikus? Sounds a little too litvish, even for my taste. The Ramchal never said mitzvos couldn't exist without dveikus, he just said mitzvos are a vehicle for attaining dveikus. Surely the bein adam l'chaveiro is still there for an atheist.
ReplyDeleteShavua tov from Jerusalem.
ReplyDeleteThank you Rabbi Gordon, LironK, and nc for your cogent comments.
Back to my question (rephrased thanks to LironK): What should be our motivation in doing mitzvos bein adam lechaveiro? Does Hashem want our motivation to be achieving our own dveikus or does He want us to achieve v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha in order to achieve dveikus and use that ahava for others as motivation for bein adam l'chaveiro mitzvos.
I believe that Mesilas Yesharim Chapter 11 takes a stand on this question. In discussing nkiyus in refraining from revenge, Mesilas Yesharim says that even if we have refrained from taking revenge, the yetzer hara does not give up and tries to get us to at least not love as much as before. To that the Torah says, v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha- kamocha mamash- you must love him as much as before.
What happened here? How can we bring in v'ahavta lereiacha komocha? I thought that we were discussing nekiyus in the mitzva of not taking revenge. Why have we not achieved nekiyus in the mitzva of not taking revenge because we are lacking in v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha. That is another mitzva.
I know that other explanations are possible but I think that Rav Moshe Chaim Luzzato is saying that one cannot achieve n'kiyus in the mitzva of not taking revenge if there is not n'kiyus in v'ahavta lreiacha kamocha. And that is understandable only if the mitzva of not taking revenge (as well as all mitzvos bein adam lechaveiro) is subsumed under v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha. Note that Rav Moshe Chaim writes here that v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha is a rule that includes everything. I think that he means what I just wrote and he writes that here to explain why he says that one does not achieve n'kiyus in the mitzva of taking revenge if he does not have nkiyus in v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha.
If all mitzvos bein adam l'chaveiro are subsumed under v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha it seems reasonable that the answer to my question is that the motivation for the performance of all such mitzvos should be a feeling of ahava bein adam l'chaveiro.
NoG: You write in your recent comment:
ReplyDelete"What happened here? How can we bring in v'ahavta lereiacha komocha? ... That is another mitzva. I know that other explanations are possible..."
I think it is important to point out that these two biblical statements appear side by side in the very same verse: לא תקם ולא תטר את בני עמך ואהבת לרעך כמוך (Vayikra 19:18). Nonetheless, this only underscores your central point (which really R. Akiva should get credit for): ואהבת לרעך כמוך זה כלל גדול בתורה.